Product Summary: Ew.
Irradiated by Stingray
A couple weekends past, the bounciest gunbunny of them all, our friend Spear, came to visit. On this visit, he had laid hands to one of the more oddball entries in the modern firearms catalog, the FN PS90 in semi-auto, long barreled civilian trim. It looks like this:
(Image credit Wikipedia)
This is a canoe paddle:
(Image credit some paddle store. Nice lookin’ though.)
If these shapes seem similar to you, that is because the FN PS90 is in fact a paddle for the failboat.
Spear has requested that my review be more in depth than “Set that pile of suck on fire and never speak of it again,” so let me elaborate.
First, it’s a bullpup. This means that in an effort to save length, everything has been shoehorned into oddball locations, such as the chamber being pretty much under your cheek when firing. And the trigger being nowhere near the sear, or the rest of the trigger-involving parts. This means there’s a fuckoff huge rod connecting the trigger way at the front of the gun to the actual primer-slapping mechanisms at the rear, so the trigger pull feels like you’re trying to choke Spongebob Squarepants. The trigger doesn’t so much break, but more is like when you chill silly putty and then try to snap it in half. It mostly oozes around the problem and then sort of lets go in a half hearted glorp.
This particular model came with the factory sights. Which also sucked. They were adequately lined up for social purposes, but to acquire them required head gymnastics that would earn at least a bronze*. Attempting to use them for anything more than 50 yards, give or take 20, and you may as well just point and hope.
Next we have the ergonomics. As a southpaw shooter, I do appreciate when there is a nod in this department to those of a sinister bent, but the funky-ass little radio dial serving as a safety is a device that feels more at home on a car’s dashboard than as part of the firing controls of a super duper space gun that this paddle aspires to be. To use it, you fiddle the dial to a different position, and then flip the gun from side to side trying to figure out if you just put the safety on or off, before eventually declaring “Fuck it,” pointing it down range, and seeing if you can make Spongebob Triggergroup emit a sharp gurgle or if it will just stretch and squish silently. Additionally on the ergonomics, your support hand goes inside the trigger guard, because nothing screams “Good idea” like having your off thumb in the same tiny space as your trigger finger. It’s perfect for doing shadow puppets while you shoot! I call this one “Punching a retarded designer in the balls.”
Back to the bullpup design, this particular incarnation ejects downwards, and brings us to an important safety tip: Ladies, do not shoot the FN PS90 ever unless you are an A-cup. The brass shot down at my chest and by sheer luck all bounced off my range ID badge. Hard enough to leave marks, and a couple tiny little melty-streaks. When LabRat went to shoot it… well her chest is less straight down than mine. Ladies, if you must stroke this oar, it is even more vital than normal to wear a shirt with a very high neckline. A turtleneck wouldn’t be a bad choice. “It’s great if you’re wearing armor, ’cause then it’s no problem at all,” I was told. Guess what I wasn’t wearing. Guess what nobody else was wearing.
This brings us to the ammo itself, the 5.7x28mm. On paper, it’s fairly interesting. In reality, it’s a necked cartridge about the size of a large ibuprofen that’s more or less a .22 mag and costs something stupid like six gold per round. The main advantage is that it’s technically a bit fiestier down range than said .22 mag, and the magazines for this thing (the most interesting part which I’ll get to in a minute) will hold 50 of them and still function. How much fiestier? I couldn’t tell you. I don’t want to get shot with either, so let your wallet be your conscience in this situation.
Now, the magazine. The magazine is also stupid as hell, but it’s stupid as hell in a way that’s so nifty that it actually works that I can’t help but like it. Ammunition is stored perpendicular to the axis of the barrel, so each round has to make a 90 degree turn as it leaves the mag and goes into the chamber. Spear wouldn’t let me disassemble beyond any hope of reassembly inspect thoroughly the mechanism that causes this to happen, but somehow it does, and does so without at any point the magazine becoming unloadable from spring tension on the 30th or 40th or even 49th round necessitating thumbs of steel. I’m pretty sure a child was sacrificed during the design of this magazine, because for as over-complicated as it is, even LabRat wasn’t able to break it or make it stop feeding.
Which, fair is fair, I also have to note that the paddle is very reliable and did not have a single jam, ftf, fte, qrs, tuv, or any of the other little bundles of joy that translate to “won’t go bang when I strangle Spongebob.”
Spear was good enough to point out, repeatedly and almost to the point of defensiveness, that this gun is not designed for popping prairie dogs or deer or sporting clays or any of the other things that every other gun in the universe can multitask to at least a little, but for the single and sole purpose of being a personal defense weapon (he wouldn’t even call it the PS90, just “the pdw”). For this one and only task, I can see it as being a viable entry…. in the original short-barrel configuration. With the extended paddle neck… er, barrel, the impressive shortness that could sit comfortably along a car door muzzle forward is trashed, but 50 rounds of decent, if overpriced and goofy, ballistic stop-that in a won’t jam ever (trust me, if it didn’t jam for LR or myself, it’s pretty solid) package is not a bad option to have. He further reports that while the rate of fire on the un-neutered version is high enough to rank into the realm of stupid, that with good trigger discipline it will spray a healthy dose of lead into whatever needs to stop doing that very controlably. Unfortunately, with Spongebob Triggergroup, the only practical way to get enough practice to have such discipline in the first place is if you’re shooting someone else’s ammo.
The FN PS90 is good for: Mercenaries and body guards in third or lower world shit holes where threats are a bit more serious than paparazzi, with ammunition budgets in place and paid for by the client, but they still have cars and stuff and buildings with doors instead of tents/yurts. People with more money than sense who think it’s a cool looking space gun. People who want one because fuck you I want one and that’s all the reason I need dammit. Movie prop departments who need more than the glowing field doors on the prisoner cells** to convince the audience that the setting is in space/the future.
The FN PS90 is not good for: Everybody else.
Moving this up from comments to make sure it’s seen, because it’s too good not to, LabRat notes: “I’d like to append that Spear brought it in large part to let me try a bullpup rifle, given that front-heavy rifles are one of my bugbears.
I am told my reaction to shooting it was much akin to a small child that has been handed a salmon-flavored ice cream cone.”
*Obligatory Olympics reference completed. We may now resume ignoring the event just as hard as we do the rest of the time.
**Y’know what would’ve been better than force fields? An actual door. With a lock. That won’t shut off when the power goes out.***
***Yes, we love us some Cave
August 6th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
I’d like to append that Spear brought it in large part to let me try a bullpup rifle, given that front-heavy rifles are one of my bugbears.
I am told my reaction to shooting it was much akin to a small child that has been handed a salmon-flavored ice cream cone.
August 6th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Arrrg.
Yeah, pullpups are “engineer” guns. And I say that as an engineer.
A design that has so many “on paper” advantages it’s just gotta be good!
Where the trigger fail is a big issue that’s often overlooked.
Interestingly the Kriss (which is a sort of mutant anti bullpup) has a pretty good trigger. Though they cheated by putting a fairly vanilla hammer upside down on a short transfer bar.
Hmm, the ammo is a real good question. How does the velocity compare with 223?
At elast the magazine works and it’s a reliable fail oar.
August 6th, 2012 at 6:25 pm
Wikipedia claims the 28gr and 31gr will do about 2350, the 23gr about 2800. I haven’t gone through any commercial pages to look up what they claim.
August 6th, 2012 at 10:56 pm
As a fellow person of sinister orientation, I’ve never been a big fan of bull-pups in general, if only because a good number of them were designed by people who seem to have a hate-grudge against lefties and hence are almost completely unusable for me.
The fact that they almost invariably require a crappy trigger and awkward ergonomics to work just kind of cements my “no bullpup” policy.
August 7th, 2012 at 5:35 am
well , at least it weighs less than the RFB . Just sayin …
August 7th, 2012 at 6:20 am
As someone who was (forced) to transition from L1A1 (FN FAL) to L85A2 (SA80) I can understand your pain.
Not to discount any of what you’ve said (especially having never fired the civy version) I can’t say I had a fraction of your problems with the weapon. I suspect some issues arose due to the simply completely different set-up (eg for someone intimately familiar with many column shift vehicles suddenly, with limited access and experience, being given a stick-shift to try). I’m fully willing to accept I’m wrong on that though.
The problem is, at least in part (not including you here) not helped by the usual ‘I know what I like/am used to’. My personal experience of transitioning to bullpup was - ‘I hate it, I hate it, I hate it!’. Unfortunately higher ignored my moaning and forced it. Surprisingly, with the upgraded (and let’s not get into the political reasons for fielding and unready weapon, the exaggerations, or the fact that it only took a couple of years to fix - unlike a certain M16). With experience (NB) the SA80 is as effective and reliable as any other weapon around (and considerably better than the M4 in theatre, if you ignore the jingoism and hyperbole).
My personal take on PS90 is that as a pdw, or even as a replacement for a subgun, it is a useful, handy, reliable and effective alternative. It is not a rifle, it is not for target shooting - if anything it is what it was designed as, a replacement (alternative) for a defensive pistol at which it excels. Does it have faults? Of course, everything is a trade-off but if the alternative when the black-hats start throwing things at me is a pistol I’ll have one please, because even I can reliably put hits into a target at 100 yards, which unfortunately I can’t say I can do with a pistol (although I’d really prefer a MP7).
Just my (limited) opinion.
August 7th, 2012 at 8:10 am
I have heard from a militia friend of mine who got to try the P90 (note lack of S) that he could put rounds on paper at 400 meters with it about as easily as he could with an AK4 or AK5(H&K G3A1 and an FN FNC variant respectively), and easily do the same with short bursts.
I have a feeling the sights were different than what you had to cope with as well.
August 7th, 2012 at 9:18 am
Mmmmm, salmon ice-cream!
I’ll just go ahead and admit up front, I like bullpups. As in, I’m a fanboy. I know all the reasons they suck, but they’re just cool.
That said, I laughed out loud at “spongebob triggergroup”. Because yeah. I’ve got a buddy who had a semi-auto AK in a fancy plastic bullpup stock, and the trigger transfer was literally a piece of Z bent wire. The trigger didn’t so much “break” as “stretch”.
Still, with a drum mag on it, it was a lot of firepower in a tiny little package.
August 7th, 2012 at 9:37 am
It still strikes me as more useful than a Kriss Vector for some reason.
August 7th, 2012 at 9:48 am
LOL, I remember your ‘bitching’ about it, and I don’t really want that POS. Now if I could get my hands on another P-90, hell ya! Even on full auto the gun runs well and is controllable thanks to a Cutts compensator. And I didn’t get the crap outta my shirt either… sigh
August 7th, 2012 at 10:54 am
Able: For that exact purpose, and that purpose only, of being a better alternative than a pistol if things are bad enough to be shooting at things, I’ll agree all day. Even just the argument of 50 rounds vs. 15ish wins there. You’re right, it *is* a replacement subgun/Bigger Pistol for when things really are pear shaped, and for that very limited niche, perfectly cromulent.
That said, my preference for option $Bigger_Than_Pistol would still be something else on the grounds you cited of familiarity. Yes, I *could* get familiar enough with the failboat paddle to have it be as natural and intuitive as something more traditional, if as with you higher up said “Shut up and do it,” but since I’m not kicking doors for a living, I’d much rather the practice time be something enjoyable. I’m not a specialist, so I’ll leave the unitaskers to them.
August 7th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Stingray is sinister? Neeeever would have guessed.
August 7th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Stingray - Roger that! But, but it’s cool looking, and surely Stargate can’t be wrong?
To be honest, I did actually find it fun to shoot too. Just wondering, at Old NFO’s comment, whether it was that particular weapon or the alteration to the PS 90 trigger that has bug red the thing? Two stage on the P 90 is far from Spongebob-like.
Kaerius - all I can say is he/she’s better than I am. Kind of wonder what’s the point though with an effective range of 200m (seem to remember the range is out to about 2000m) but with a third the energy of a 5.56 it, even at 400m, wouldn’t do more than ‘piss the bad guy off’ would it? Oh and 100m was standing, seated, kneeling and prone, not benchrested (in a lame attempt to salve my poor battered ego ;-p )
August 7th, 2012 at 5:39 pm
Also just wondering how you got the brass to eject onto your chest. With the, obligatory slight forward lean (no., I didn’t duck-walk), It misses my (extremely manly) chest by a wide margin. I seem to remember there’s a pouch/bag that attaches to collect spent brass if that was a problem (probably for all those high-speed-low-drag-deniable-op mall ninjas out there).
However, we have agreed that this warrants more research (after a couple of beers) and so I will undertake a test series if you can supply the bevy of ‘well-endowed’ lady shooters willing to risk their cleavages (in low cut tops - absolutely essential!), oh and start a collection to fund the ammo (we’ll share the video rights
)
August 7th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
I’m curious as to what advantages the “real” version of this weapon offers over something like an MP5 variant.
I always thought the feeding mechanism was really nifty on these, if a little unusual.
August 7th, 2012 at 7:25 pm
Re: Able
He’s part of the national guard special strike team, so yeah he’s pretty good. The brass had to cheat to let 2 battalions of armor get their mandatory win against his one platoon of national guard in a wargame. They’d wiped out one battalion and stopped the other in its tracks. He’s been on palace guard duty at least twice that I know of(sweden, vestigial monarchy though we’re a democracy).
I’m pretty sure his experience is from prone at 400m. I make no claim about its effectiveness at that range, only that he could hit reliably.
August 7th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
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August 8th, 2012 at 4:36 am
Able,
“the SA80 is as effective and reliable as any other weapon around (and considerably better than the M4 in theatre, if you ignore the jingoism and hyperbole).”
I know a lot… A LOT… of people with experience with both in theatre, and you are absolutely the first person to make that claim of which I am aware.
I will note that not a single special operations unit in your own military, given a choice between the Civil Servant and a Canuckistani AR variant, picks the bullpup.
August 8th, 2012 at 9:14 am
Tam: from his post. it looks like he didn’t get a chance to use the M-4 much.
Although given a choice between the two, I would go back to the FAL … which is exactly what I did.
My home built FAL is my srsbizns choice, even though I have a couple of AR variants in the safe as well. And yes it is heavy, but not as heavy as an AR some dimwit has barbie-dolled up.
August 8th, 2012 at 9:24 am
Apples and oranges- it IS a deer gun- but I would rather defend myself with my “new” 03 Mannlicher 6.5 carbine- better round, better ergonomics. (And LabRat- lighter and not barrel heavy).
Stingray: best new product review i have read in a long time!
August 8th, 2012 at 10:33 am
Tam - Absolutely! Given a choice, of what is on offer to UK forces, I’d go with a c7 or C8 too (SFSG and RM both have to use L85, and even SAS/SBS, when they want to appear as ‘normal’ but that’s not say it’s a good weapon). I’ve been out a long time and will accept your greater knowledge on this unreservedly. As an aside, in situations where SF don’t need to consider the commonality, appearance, etc. aspects — they don’t carry/choose AR variants either. (Truth is if we went with what SF love we’d all carry Minimi
)
The kicker though is that they really don’t want to use m4, yes? Nobody likes the SA 80, and that’s partially because of the fiasco of A1, but not wholly. All the issues I’ve spoken to anyone about relate, eventually, to 5.56 (compounded by m4’s barrel length). And yes, my personal experience of m4 is perfunctory at best (but reliability and effectiveness, are they ‘really’ so good?). Be interested in your opinion. All the ‘old timers’ I know in theatre want L1A! back - given the choice(?!?).
August 8th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
Tam
Not be either argumentative or jingoistic myself (being fully aware how knowledgeable you are), I was just wondering how many of the “LOT… of people with experience with both” are actually British? There’s experience (seeing others use, hearing moaning [British squaddies would win every Olympic event if moaning was included, I know as moaning about FAL was a hobby of mine], and firing a couple of mags) and there’s humping [that’s the English version not the Americanese, honest, it’s an UGLY rifle]) the damned heavy thing every day.
The MRBF rates speak volumes as well as the evidence, of US stats, on rates of stoppages (x3 that of any other weapon in theatre). Most of the evidence shows the A2 has a better reliability, effectiveness and accuracy (well, excluding a certain Swiss item).
As for SPAM SF, Er, don’t most of them tote HK 416’s? Not the best endorsement either.
Just Askin’
August 9th, 2012 at 7:36 am
I commented about it in 2006: http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/61133.html
Bottom ejection is a hazard for shooting prone (P90, M240, Bren, DP27), either directly or from hot cases bouncing off the ground. On the plus side, less hazard to the shooters next to you or to left-handed users. FN2000 and RFB eject forward at the cost of slower chamber checks, more heat transferred to the rifle from the spent casing. No free lunch.
August 9th, 2012 at 9:16 am
Able, the trigger on the PS90 just plain sucked compared to the P90, and the PS90 ‘seems’ to eject more toward the back than the P90.
August 9th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Able,
Busy at moment, but here’s an interesting link on the SA80 from a USMC officer-type who assisted your guys with developing some TTPs:
http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2011/11/actual-friggin-data-on-sa80.html
August 10th, 2012 at 11:30 am
They pin the forestock to the gas block on SA50?
Ick. Being able to float an AR barrel is a serious accuracy advantage … I just wish the DoD would get a clue and float the M-4.
And get rid of that worthless barrel.
August 10th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Tam - Thanks! Interesting guy! (the [very!] understated and laconic descriptions make him sound ‘almost British’
)
Read the post and some points are unequivocal but on others I found myself agreeing with the commenter Ray.
The issue of ‘no left shoulder shooting’ is a major one. Other issues raised seemed to show a bias towards his taught speciality of CQB (his concern with LOP whilst minimising impact of OAL, ability to fire unsupported, etc.). That procedures and practices developed specifically for M4 don’t work the same way with L85 is hardly surprising (and fully aware neither L85 or M4 would be first choice for CQB anyway). I’d have to completely disagree with the accuracy statement though, and that’s not to do with optics but barrel.
It’s interesting to note that almost all the pro comments, articles are British, whilst almost all the negatives are American. Is this indicative of familiarity/training/expectations (I don’t think it’s a bias especially in one such as the author). He’s patently all of the above, yet as you’ll know from the whole ‘1911 vs everyting else’ debates, expectations and formative experiences have an impact greater than the obvious and elicit very strong reactions.
It’s funny he quotes all the senior British NCO’s, since I can’t think of a single piece of kit that they wouldn’t describe as a POS and want it replacing. Weapon wise I suspect most would go, as I did, with what we initially trained on as a benchmark (I do remember Sergeants moaning that L1A1 wasn’t ‘the dogs b*ll*cks’ like their No.4 Enfield).
Looking forward to a more comprehensive response if/when you have the time/inclination.
Old NFO
Thanks, have sent a query to a friend in Belgium, will let you know the response.
August 10th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Glad the range I went to was out of 5.7, then (or something; both the PS90 and the FiveseveN were marked as not rentable), because that meant I rented a Vector instead for my sci-fi coolness fun.
August 17th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
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