Avengers
Irradiated by LabRat
So, we finally saw it. It’s made a big enough impact on our little town that even several weeks after opening the evening show was wall to wall and we had to come back for the late show. I haven’t seen our little movie house anywhere near that occupied in literally ever, let alone several weeks after opening. Even the late show had a pretty big crowd by local standards. Spoilery bits behind the cut, nonspoilery bits in front.
- The movie’s full title is Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. It should be Avengers: Being Thrown At Stuff. Oh 3D movies, you so wacky. On the bright side the 3D worked for me more often than it ever has before, on the downside that’s kind of a world’s tallest midget contest. I will admit that it made the final action sequence pretty awesome. (Stingray wants me to note that the 3D ruined most of the movie for him EXCEPT that scene.)
- This is coming from someone who sees movies solely because Ed Norton is in them: Mark Ruffalo is by far the better Bruce Banner than Ed Norton. He ran away with the movie and would be completely justified in inviting most of comic fandom to suck his nuts for doubting him. I liked everything I saw of him and would totally turn up in the theater for a second Hulk movie.
- As a whole the movie is many excellent scenes that are sometimes poorly strung together. I gather that this is because it’s an attempt to join multiple different characters and arcs that are strong enough to carry movies of their own, but the seams and joints still show rather badly in places. It’s still an awesome movie, mind you, I just suspect this is going to bother me on the many rewatches to follow.
- Gamma mutants don’t bother me, Widow’s thigh holster and dual-wielded Glocks don’t bother me, a dude relying on a bow and arrow in a universe where there are gamma mutants doesn’t bother me, characters who are supposedly just really fit and trained normal people being able to shrug off gravity bothers me. We also have our failures of disbelief, I suppose.
- It’s a Whedon movie. He did a good job with it, and it’s probably why the dialogue and character interaction is such a cut above the previous Marvel Universe movies, but it’s got his fingerprints all over it and some of them are grubby. Cabin in the Woods was better.
- Captain America came off WAY better in this movie than his own. That character really does belong in an ensemble cast.
- Whedon claims the death of fan favorite Agent Coulson was something the Marvel execs told him to do that he knew he’d be blamed for. Stingray notes that he earned his reputation for killing off fan favorites just ’cause fair and square and rather exhaustively. I’m actually inclined to believe him solely because the typical Whedon kill is you see them die, then you see the autopsy, then you see the funeral, then you see the grief counseling… he leaves no wiggle room, he paints “THEY’RE DEAD” in giant forty foot high letters. This was much more “comic book death”; we see him stop breathing, then we see the medics arrive, then we see Fury lying about the circumstances of his death. That, and Clark Gregg has been self-contradictory and cagey about whether he’s been asked back for any sequels.
- I predicted as much, and it came true: Black Widow was irritatingly Whedonified. She almost didn’t seem like the same character as we saw in Iron Man 2. I get that Joss wanted to give the only female Avenger thus far more characterization, but is taking the coldest blooded killer on the boat and giving her a tender, vulnerable side really the best way to do that?
- Tom Hiddleston made Loki all sorts of interesting. I’m almost sorry he won’t be back for another Big Bad turn. We watched Thor again the night before Avengers, and he goes through a pretty interesting character arc as a spurned and angry child throwing a tantrum more than a badass universe-conquerer. A friend actually pointed out to me that if Loki hadn’t acted out, he’d have gotten everything he ever wanted without having to do much; his brother got banished for starting a war and being transparently unfit to rule anything except possibly a fraternity chapter, and he was the next logical choice. Odin never claimed it was Thor’s destiny or that Loki wouldn’t be considered, Loki did. He also memory-edits letting go of Thor’s hand at the end to Thor hurling him off the Bifrost.
I also think it was a deliberate characterization choice to underline that Loki’s evil plan was essentially doomed and the only way it was never going to end was with him ruling humanity. If you need Thor of all people to point out that you haven’t thought it through, your plan is seriously delusional.
It was also interesting in that when Loki and Thor argue, Thor argues that Loki’s not going to be a good king, not that it would actually be wrong to conquer humanity. Even though Thor’s a heroic character, it would be alien to his worldview to propose that an Asgardian ruling whether his subjects liked it or not would be inherently wrong. I like that that was, tacitly, acknowledged.
- The audience ROARED with cheers and laughter when Hulk beat down Loki. I’ve never heard a theater audience react like that.
- That said, when it was just sad dying Tony and we knew they’d never let him die and Hulk was there… the audience was unimpressed.
- Apparently it’s okay again to show a threat attacking New York City from the sky and killing people in office buildings. Good.
- *doink* *doink* “That’s never happened to me before.” Lost. it.
- Whedon wants to bring in another female Avenger for the sequel. Since they’re apparently doing an Ant-Man (?!) movie, the smart money is on Wasp, but… She-Hulk was an Avenger. GIVE US SHULKIE* OH PRETTY PLEASE MARVEL
- SHAWARMA
*Stingray says he wants Gina Carrano or he will riot. I want Natalie Morales.
May 23rd, 2012 at 9:22 pm
“Puny god.”
May 23rd, 2012 at 9:38 pm
The only problem with Shulkie is that she ends up looking like Hulk’s little sister. She’s great if he goes, but if he sticks around, she’s in his shadow.
I’d rather see Wanda and Pietro.
May 23rd, 2012 at 10:47 pm
Eh, I disagree, especially with the Marvel Movie Universe. The big distinguishing factor between Jen Walters and Bruce Banner is that his Hulk is driven by unreasoning rage and the absolute best you can hope from him is that he won’t kill/smash innocents or his friends; she can still think and reason well enough in her Hulk form that she can end the battle with words and cunning rather than Smash. (This’d be why I like Dan Slotts’s run more than Peter David’s as much as I like Peter David.) This can be used to contrast the two characters and make she as strong/useful in her own way.
Scarlet Witch would be interesting? But most of her recent Marvel history consists of… being the bear you really shouldn’t poke.
May 23rd, 2012 at 10:48 pm
I’d really rather see Jessica Drew. I’m reasonably sure that Whedon will totally dick up whatever female they let him use.
May 23rd, 2012 at 11:49 pm
Considering that agent Poulson is not Peter Parker’s uncle I don’t expect him to stay dead.
May 24th, 2012 at 5:55 am
Nobody in fandom believes Coulson’s dead *g* And with lots of good reasons, as you pointed out XD (Which doesn’t mean they aren’t writing REAMS of fix-it fic.)
Only tangentially related, but something I keep thinking about and why not I’ll ask for your thoughts here since I think you know way more comicsverse than I do: I find the whole Captain America concept weirdly amusing in that given his name and his origin as a character there is pretty much zero AMERICA FUCK YEAH about him or his movie (+ the only Hitler he punches out is a dude on a stage). Granted, this can be attributed to Hollywood being way cautious because of foreign markets, but it’s pretty noticeable. A friend pointed out that Tony Stark/Iron Man is waaaaaay more USAUSAUSA I’M A CAPTAIN OF INDUSTRY YEAH and probably deserves the actual title way more XD I mean I’ll accept that Steve Rogers is Cap simply because the writers tell us so but it really feels like his title is pasted on yay. Hell, Tony is the one who goes out for a burger and Steve doesn’t even put up the minimal effort towards doing anything stereotypically Eagleland.
(And I have been told that in the comicsverse, *mumble mumble* happens … … … and it would be all kinds of interesting meta if they stick with THAT.)
May 24th, 2012 at 6:25 am
The audience ROARED with cheers and laughter when Hulk beat down Loki. I’ve never heard a theater audience react like that.
Same thing happened at the showing I went to. I must admit to being part of the laughter roar. But holy shit that was a funny scene.
I get that Joss wanted to give the only female Avenger thus far more characterization, but is taking the coldest blooded killer on the boat and giving her a tender, vulnerable side really the best way to do that?
Are we referring to the scene where Loki is supposedly terrorizing her? ‘Cause It hought that was pretty much just her acting like she had a vulnerable side to trick Loki. (Which, when you think about it, has to be a pretty damn fine bit of acting. He’s Loki for fuck’s sake. Tricking people is pretty much his schtick.)
That’s the only “vulnerable” moment I can recall, but it’s been a couple weeks since I’ve seen the movie, so, details are getting lost.
May 24th, 2012 at 6:57 am
OK, that does it. I’m going to see it this weekend or early next week.
May 24th, 2012 at 8:23 am
Zombie Coulson, Agent of SHIELD!
May 24th, 2012 at 9:21 am
Perl- nope, not the wounded-bird act. I was referring to the stuff with Hawkeye referring to herself as “compromised”, as well as her desperately telling Banner it was all gonna be OK. Which… given her characterization is “master manipulator”, it was more than a little weird to see her trying a gambit that had already failed utterly once… or else succumbing to terror when, y’know, pretty much nothing else does that. I grant you Hulk is pretty scary but still.
May 24th, 2012 at 9:27 am
Well, it was pretty much established that Black Widow is pretty cagey around Bruce because The Hulk is the only thing that really terrifies her. Which makes sense. She could probably kill Stark and Rogers on her own, Hawkeye is her bestie, and Thor at least LOOKS human and has some semblance of honor. Hulk? Invincible green rage monster that she likely couldn’t put a scratch on. Pretty much the stuff of nightmares, especially for an assassin who could wipe the floor with nearly everyone else in the movie.
May 24th, 2012 at 9:36 am
Kara: Cap actually hasn’t been “America FUCK YEAH” for a really long time in the comicsverse, like not for decades. For obvious reasons he’s a favorite for Writer On Board, and the comics industry as a whole doesn’t lean right. He’s been taken in all sorts of directions by different writers (especially Ultimate, ye gods), but one thing they all broadly agree on is he’s loyal to ideals and principles, not to any government or nationalism.
tl;dr The movie characterization is actually pretty loyal to the canon characterization for Steve and Tony both. It’s just not what you’d expect out of either of them by title alone.
And yeah, Stingray noticed before I did that they’re at the very least laying down a few bricks in the direction of Civil War…
May 24th, 2012 at 9:40 am
I don’t see Black Widow as being significantly more emotional than Hawkeye in their shared scene, and *especially* not more emotional than Bruce Banner during his monologues about being “like an exposed nerve” and his later admission of a suicide attempt. (All of which were scenes I enjoyed, for the record.)
Sometimes it’s like female characters can’t win - if she shows no emotion or vulnerability at all then she’s a Mary Sue/cardboard cutout, but if she has a soft side then she’s OMG WEAK. I don’t always love everything about Joss Whedon’s writing of female characters, but I thought he did all right striking a balance. Natasha has her moment of vulnerability, but then she pretty much suits up and gets over it.
May 24th, 2012 at 10:10 am
I’ll fully admit that maybe I’m not being fair. I wouldn’t describe her character as weak, just… substantially different from the one I met in IM2.
May 24th, 2012 at 10:14 am
re: Black Widow - I’d argue that Natasha is frightened around him because aside from her physical capabilities, her Thing is using psychological manipulation to fuck with enemies, and Hulk appears pretty much impossible to do that with, so she’d probably feel cagey simply because she can’t punch him, can’t shoot him, and can’t manipulate him, so she really can’t do *anything* to Hulk. Whereas with everyone else, she’s generally got options.
@LabRat - ah okay. Nobody I’ve talked to has been in Marvel fandom long enough to know/tell me that. That’s … ahaha, okay. I didn’t know he was a favorite of the writers, although I suppose if nothing else, the whole timeskip thing does make for endless angst fodder, and his personality is pretty hilarious to pair against Tony’s.
May 24th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
Personally, I was happy enough that this time Johansen’s boobs didn’t have a starring role, I was willing to let anything else slide.
Sure, tight outfit and all, but … comic book character.
By American movie standards it’s pretty impressive. Like ‘stealth feminism’ or something.
Not perfect or anything but again … comic book.
May 24th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
As far as She-Hulk, they had Chyna play her in the Avengers porn parody, so that’s an option.
May 24th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
>>>”Mark Ruffalo is by far the better Bruce Banner than Ed Norton.”<<<
Thank you. It seems like everywhere I turn since seeing the movie people have been telling me that Ruffalo's Banner was just not up to Norton's. And while they're entitled to their opinions, they're still wrong. Personally I thought that Norton's Banner was too Bixbyish and didn't draw enough from the tons of other sources out there.
May 24th, 2012 at 7:12 pm
And here is an incredible time sink I found on Random Nuclear Strikes:
DC Marvel mashup covers done in MS Paint …
http://braveandboldlost.blogspot.com/
May 24th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
As far as She-Hulk…
Gina Carano or gtfo.
May 24th, 2012 at 8:36 pm
Comics fan or no, the film was damned pleasurable as a stand-alone, imho. Stark’s solipsistic edge is foiled enough by the ensemble that you don’t need the antibodies to enjoy him. Ruffalo struck the perfect balance. I love that man. I would have gone to see Hulkmoowie if he’d been in it. His haunted delivery has the naff of genuineness about it. One Wants To Cuddle Him, though not in Hulkie mode.
I never thought Black Widow was doing anything but playing the shit out of the perceptions her wictims had of the feminine sensibility. (and wasn’t it canny how she lured Hulk?) I cackled openly when she- bound to a chair- said to someone on the phone that she was interrogating someone and they were telling her everything she wanted to know. It was a damnably clever tableau- she’s bound and helpless, defeated, tears threatening to storm the banks of her lower lids as goons posture about her. Helpess little female, right? Everyone in the room is on level white awareness. Then she proceeds to kick wholesale ass. She can conjure the tears, but it’s all completely calculated. The girl was working it, and she was stone-cold hot whilst doing so. I’m not a ScarJo fan, and I didn’t like her so much in the previous Stark joint, but I think she struck the perfect balance here. I’m just glad they didn’t let her sing.
Jayzus, where the fook did Captain America buy that rug? That was barely one generation removed from the molded plastic hair on Kraftwerk. Srsly. He was admirable in spite of the Hair Club For Men action. (Not the president- only a member.)
Re: Loki- did nothing for me in Thor, but OMFG, if someone must tie one to the railroad tracks, well, that wickedly delicious toothy leer from this film would be a lovely parting image. He was a nasty, nasty man and I liked it. I loved him barely tip-toeing around “cunt” to call her a quim. How lewd! Of course I don’t to be tied to a railroad track by Loki or anyone else. I’m just saying he’s beautifully evil. And those teeth. How they would bite.
That being said, I howled with everyone else when Hulk smacked the shit out of him.
(drinking)
May 25th, 2012 at 2:47 am
Pf:
I KNOW!-Re Loki’s word choice. I heard that and I practically squeeled in syntax delight.
Although Hulk wiping the floor with Loki was lovely. And I enjoyed every piece of Stark snark. Loved Ruffalo’s hulk. Loved all of em in fact and sat through the movie with a wicked grin of delight.
June 3rd, 2012 at 2:45 pm
Saw it. Love it. Have not see the previous flicks so I think I know what I’m going to be doing this week.
I thought that Mark Ruffalo did a great job as Banner, no scenery chewing or überangst. I vaguely remember the Bill Bixby version but not well enough to compare the two.
What’s up with Cap’s immobile hair?