So You Want A Purebred Puppy
Irradiated by LabRat
Over at Marko’s place where I was a’browsing while bored, Lissa asked how one goes about finding a good breeder for a purebred pup.
Sounds like time for Way More Answer Than You Wanted! Getting any dog from any source has its own risks and pitfalls, and getting a purebred dog certainly has plenty.
Bad starting points:
- Newspaper classifieds. Sometimes good breeders advertise here, but usually it’s the domain of mills and people who bred their own purebred because they were cute/nice or to get some money back out of them. It’s perfectly possible to get a puppy this way that is healthy and delightful, but it’s a riskier option.
- The back of dog magazines. For the same reason as above. Your signal to noise ratio can be better here, as sometimes bigger kennels looking to boost their name will buy an ad space without advertising a particular litter; this is an especially good strategy if your kennel breeds a rare breed that almost certainly cannot be found locally for most people.
- Pet stores. Not only is the pup virtually guaranteed to be a mill dog, pet stores are breeding grounds for epidemic- AND you will probably pay twice as much as you would have from a breeder, at least in most breeds. (Some breeds make breeding them extremely inherently expensive and you should expect to take a hit either way- like, say, French and English bulldogs.)
Bottom line: most ethical breeders don’t breed litters primarily to sell, they breed in order to get a particular hoped-for result from the cross and sell according to what they got. They don’t need to go retail or advertise in the classifieds first because they want to have as much control as possible over where the pups go and into what circumstance, and second because they usually have waiting homes already- or at least contacts who’d know who is looking for a pup of that breed or why.
Good starting points:
- Your veterinarian is always worth asking. Vets have good breeder clients and horrifying breeder clients, and they can sometimes either recommend or warn you off breeders in your area, and may know about upcoming litters, particularly if the breed is a relatively common one.
- A friend or acquaintance who is already in the breed, so to speak. Or someone who breeds/shows/trials a different breed, but is active in the dog world. Breeders and show people usually know everyone local who also trials or shows, or if in their actual breed, everyone in the region.
- Google and your wits. Don’t search for “(breed) puppies for sale”, search the full name of the breed and by state. Established kennels often have websites, as it’s a good way to network and to attract people making a slow, non-impulsive search for a good bet in that breed. Unfortunately, so do millers, which brings us to:
Bad signs
- The puppies are from “champion lines”, or “papered”. Having one champion in the lines only means that, at some point, a dog who titled was genetically involved, no matter how far back; people who actually show or trial take “registered” for given, the same way you would take “is definitely a dog”. Someone who has to make a selling point out of “is definitely a dog” probably doesn’t have something you want.
- They seem to breed lots and lots of litters, and in several different breeds. Sometimes there’s a “he’s in Malamutes, she’s in Rottweilers” situation, or an established kennel also has one other breed, but usually there’s a primary and a secondary and the total number of litters is still relatively low. Places that advertise they always have puppies available are places to run away from, fast.
- They’ll sell you a pup online, sight unseen. They are more interested in your ability to pay than in why you want a pup of that breed and what you expect your dog to be like.
- There’s plenty about how cute and maybe healthy the puppies are, but almost nothing about the breed, about actual health testing and existing health issues in the breed, and about what their rationale and goals for breeding are.
Good signs
- Pedigrees rather than “papers” or “champion lines”. Pedigrees can be very informative for people within the breed that know how to read them; probably not to the average prospective pet home, but this is an attempt to provide real meaningful information about the pups’ lines.
- The site, or breeder, is up front about giving you reasons why you DON’T want this breed. No breed is without its issues, and none is a good fit for every person or family; good breeders care about the eventual fate of their pups and the last thing they want is for them to end up homeless because the owners couldn’t cope with normal issues in the breed.
- They are also up front about discussing health issues known to the breed, at length. Again, while some breeds are healthier than others, NONE is problem free, and this should not be hidden information. Along with this should be the records for health testing, where tests are available; at the very least you want to see OFA (orthopedic) and CERF (retina) certifications on breeding stock. For most large breeds you also want thyroid testing. When testing is not available, the breeder should be willing to chat about that issue.
- Links to national and/or local breed rescue on the main site. Good breeders tend to be a community, and they care about the breed as a whole, not just their own dogs. Active involvement is even better. Speaking of, there should also be some mention of what happens if, for whatever reason, you can no longer keep the dog; if the breeder cannot take the dog in themselves, they should have a backup plan that is not “shelter”. “It’s your dog now, it’s your problem” is something to run away from.
- Discussion of temperament, both in the breed in general and their dogs in particular. If it’s not up, ask. “Wonderful” is not a temperament in and of itself. Even great dogs have more specifics than that.
- A purpose for breeding beyond money and cute. Titles are a good sign; many different kinds of titles are as well, or at least they can be. Years ago I would have said that titles were mandatory, but I’ve since changed my mind; in some breeds especially that have been heavily modified by the ring, it’s no longer possible to win with a dog I would consider healthy or reasonable and some breeders have forgone the ring in favor of trying to bring back a sounder dog. The key here is that the breeder should be able to talk all day about their goals and guidelines for breeding and what results they’re getting.
- If the dog is of some physically extreme type, there should be extra discussion of what that dog’s particular needs are. Flat-faced breeds should come with warnings on how easy it is for them to overheat. Deep-chested breeds should come with warnings about bloat. Long-backed breeds such as Dachshunds should come with warnings about how easy it is for them to injure their backs. Hairless breeds should come with a “needs sunscreen”. Very thin-coated, lean breeds need warnings about how easy it is for them to get chilled. Heavy-eared spaniels need warnings about ear infections.
- Mention of “temperament” or “aptitude” testing. Usually this refers to the Volhard test. You’ll not see it much outside of trialing working and sporting breeds, however. A good breeder should be at least somewhat concerned about matching puppies to families and this is one way to get an outline of their drives and personality.
One last caveat: figure out if the breed you want is divided into working/sporting and show or “bench” lines, or is all show, or virtually all field/work. The odds are that unless you’re looking for a dog to actually do that job, in which case you probably already know how to track down what you want, you want show/pet lines, NOT working. Working/field/stock lines have energy and focus to match their job demands, they want and need work, and they will *not* be terribly reasonable housepets. A Border Collie whose parents both herded stock is not going to be just-a-pet, and unless you have stock that needs herding you almost certainly don’t want one. Most show breeds and lines have been significantly mellowed from their original incarnation.
There are also some breeds that are almost guaranteed to be field/work dogs; Patterdale terriers, Large Munsterlanders, and Boerboels are likely to turn up with their bags packed and ready for the job. Avoid unless that’s what you’re getting the dog for and you really know what you’re doing, especially guardian breeds. Unless roving bands of wolves and barbarians are a bigger problem for you than neighborhood kids, that can be a short path to the ER.
January 26th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
So the Caucasian Shepherd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Shepherd_Dog I’ve had my eye on might not be good because it would keep those pesky kids off my lawn might not be a good idea for the condo? Darn.
January 26th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
Or even better, how about a rescue? There are millions of dogs (and cats and other animals) out there that need new homes. And even though all three of my rescues happen to be pure breeds, you can often get better genetics, fewer health problems and better temperament from so-called “mutts”.
Most “breeds” we have today are courtesy the Victorian obsession with screwing with dog genetics (hey, they didn’t have Internet in those days and needed something to occupy their time) - messing around that didn’t always create the best results.
I cringe, especially these days, whenever I hear people talking about looking for a breeder - there is absolutely no need!
January 26th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Eric- it was specifically in answer to the question, “how do I find a reputable breeder”. While I believe in and support rescue, I don’t evangelize it.
It’s also not a panacea. I know several people who’ve gotten rescues and had both the same and different problems as you’d get from a breeder: bad temperaments (sometimes the reason the dog was surrendered), bad health problems (sometimes a legacy of a hard former life, sometimes just bad genetic luck just like a purebred), and worst of all, rescues who don’t disclose frightening or hugely problematic histories in favor of trying to make sure all dogs get adopted.
Purebreds are, ideally, about predictability. I don’t begrudge people for wanting that or think it’s invalid. If you read through some of the archives I have my own issues with closed registries and the genetics thereof- but rescues have their problems too.
You just pick which set of problems you want to deal with.
January 26th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
If someone doesn’t mind getting a mutt, fostered puppies and kittens seem like a good choice. They’ll be more likely to be socialized and healthy. (Er…admittedly, I got a fostered mutt kitten…I guess that’s pushing the discussion even further from purebred dogs.=p)
January 26th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
Yeah, one of these days I may do a companion post on how to do rescue for best chance of success.
January 26th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
Rescue’s aren’t perfect, like Labrat said not all of them are upfront either (infact the tips to find a good rescue read about like finding a good breeder). Plus some of them are REALLY strict about the homes the dogs will go too. We went looking to get a second dog, since our first dog is an intact male who’s going to be intact for at least another year we wanted a spayed young female (if not already spayed then we WOULD be spaying her asap, period) several rescue’s flat out turned us down because he was intact. No discussion, just “no”. And they wonder why people end up looking for a breeder.
I think Labrat hit it on the head, and did a better job than I did. One thing I’d add, ok, two. If possible the breeder should be willing to point you towards folks near you who have gotten dogs from her (its not always possible, but worth asking) who you can then ask about their experience with the breeder and pup. Also the breeder should be thrilled that you want to pick up the pup at their home OR be thrilled to drop off the pup at your house, again, not always possible, especially with rare breeds where you had to go across the country, but meeting in a parking lot somewhere to exchange pup for money should be a big NO!
January 26th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Ruth, while I agree with you on principle I feel somewhat compelled by ironic comedy value to point out that I’m pretty sure we were starting to ping the local authority radar for illicit dog operations for making handoffs to get Kang to breeder and back for shows and such in an empty corner of an outlet shopping center halfway between the both of us.
January 27th, 2012 at 12:22 am
Local Kennel Clubs. The people who show dogs also breed them and often there are pups in a litter that are just not show quality, but are suitable as pets. Don’t be suprised if a condition of sale is neutering.
The plus side of talking to somebody involved in a breed club is that they’ll know everything about the dogs and breeders in your area. The minus side is that they’ll know everything about the dogs and breeders in your area.
January 27th, 2012 at 6:57 am
Stingray, ok point, but I suspect the people you were handing her off to weren’t complete strangers (or at least you’d done some reasonable research into them first).
January 27th, 2012 at 8:07 am
Plus some of them are REALLY strict about the homes the dogs will go too…And they wonder why people end up looking for a breeder.
I have only very limited experience with breeders (and only some of them were breeders of dogs), but in a slight majority of cases they were pretty crazypants about their critters’ new homes. And I don’t mean “I’d like to talk about your situation and expectations first,” I mean “I want to inspect your home first and you’ll have to sign a contract promising to send me twice-yearly reports.”
Avoiding the really hardcore control freaks has been a nontrivial part of our breeder-selection process.
January 27th, 2012 at 9:05 am
Another point, perhaps a bit off track, but nonetheless important. I think people should specifically *avoid* breeds that have known, serious health problems. Numerous breeds have been taken so far down the line of “appearance” that many - sometimes most - of the animals have chronic problems.
This type of breeding should not be supported, no matter how “reputable” the breeder is.
January 27th, 2012 at 9:11 am
This is rather timely. I’m shopping for a doberman breeder currently, and I do have one tip: find a local breed club and attend a meeting. You don’t have to become a member, but breeders may be more likely to treat with you if you’re making an obvious effort to know the breed. At least, that’s what I’m seeing in my area.
January 27th, 2012 at 10:10 am
Thank you for posting this. I had just started to look for a breeder or rescue (today, even!), but being new to buying a dog, I would likely have missed a lot of these warning signs. Sadly, having been warned, it looks like I’ll have to travel quite a ways to get to a decent breeder. All the ones in-state set off warning bells: “Champion line”, endless comments on the cute and frequent litters, sign up for a pup sight unseen, etc. Ah well, patience is a virtue. Thanks again!
January 27th, 2012 at 11:39 am
Labrat, could you write something similar on getting a mongrel puppy? Or would it be just pot luck? Also, if you get to pick one from a litter (purebred or mongrel) what to look for?
January 27th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Doing a second thing on rescues seems like a good idea, yeah. And no, it’s not a total crapshoot.
Choosing a puppy is pretty relative to breed and what you’re after in a pup, but the most basic rules of thumb are that you want one who is interested in people and not constantly off by himself, you don’t want the one that rushes the fastest and hardest to climb up on you and mouth your hands (that’s the pushy, dominant pup), and you most definitely don’t want one who is fearful of normal things like strangers or a dropped set of keys. Pick someone who is friendly and interested but not pushy.
The basic things I try are dropping the keys at some point, seeing how fast and if pups will come to me when I invite it after they have gotten interested in something else, seeing if being picked up and/or restrained gets a major reaction of some kind, and seeing who follows if I walk away.
Of course, my breed is Akitas, and they’re way way less interested in strangers than most pups, so the reactions I get are a lot different than if you tried all that on a litter of Labs.
January 27th, 2012 at 1:42 pm
Elmo: not saying that good breeders aren’t OCD about the place their pups are going too (cause infact I consider that to be a sign of a good breeder), but I find their requirements to be much more realistic to the breed than most of the rescue’s I talked to.
January 27th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
…infact I consider that to be a sign of a good breeder…
Caution is great, sure. Interest in the environment the animal will be living in, of course. But some practically want a copy of our front door key.
January 27th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
(this is what I get for clicking post before thinking it through)
and yes, twice yearly reports would be a bit much, but I have no problem with a request (and only a request) for regular pictures, infact I need to do up another good set to send to Apollo’s breeder, but I also know that she’d be just as happy with a crappy cell phone photo.
January 27th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Absolutely. Our rat breeder* asked us to please keep her informed, and we’re happy to do so. It was the one who demanded it that made us go looking elsewhere.
[* - Shut up! They’re adorable! They’re like tiny dogs! Don’t judge me!
]
January 27th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
I like rats, they’re much more interesting than most people give credit for.
And Ruth, the handoffs to and from were to our breeder and another breeder/trainer who lives here in town too.
January 27th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
People are generally surprised to find that they have individual personalities. Boy howdy, do they ever have individual personalities.
January 27th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
Excellent post, now where was that 25 years ago when I NEEDED it???
January 27th, 2012 at 5:59 pm
Rats huh? I’ll forgive you, at least its not spiders. Actually I’ve never handled a pet rat, probly because then I’d want one, and the animals I already have would be thrilled…..
Labrat, thats what I figured.
January 28th, 2012 at 12:33 am
The more and more posts like this I find about picking out a dog the more I realize how lucky I got with my dog.
He’s a Shiba Inu we got from a puppy only pet shop that opened up in the same plaza where my wife works. We have ACC papers, not AKC. But I didn’t know the difference at the time.
We bought him because he was responsive to us when we went to the store to shop. We wanted a pet and not a show dog. My wife wanted “a dog”. I’m more of a cat person. My overrides were not too big because we don’t have a huge yard and it must look like a dog not a plush foot-stop.
Shiba’s fit the bill.
It was only after we got him we learned how difficult they are for training. We persevered but it was hell. The added fun of not really knowing what we were doing didn’t help him learn any faster.
We’re better prepared for next time, and thanks to our puppy mill pup we’re in love with the breed.
But we got lucky. There’s just no way to overemphasize that.
January 29th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
I would love to see a post on rescue animals as well. I can only say that my late dog, our oldest cat and my surviving cat were all shelter or rescues, none from a foster family. Our oldest cat was probably the healthiest of the three and she was rescued from abusive owners by Mom in law. My dog had some cardiac and behavioral issues and my cat has some kind of metabolic problem that has her on a very expensive perscription food. for life. Otherwise she turns into a round furry cannonball. I don’t regret any of these animals and will probably do more shelter adoptions in my life (I hope).
Having said all that verbosely, LabRat you and Stringray are the first people to offer me so much evidence of how wonderful pure breds can be, the interesting philosphy behind training, raising etc and I think that’s really important. You’re absolutely right that shelters aren’t a panacea, breeders can have their issues…I think some of the factors to consider that ypu bring up are really helpful.