New Shooter Report
Irradiated by Stingray
(Stingray Sez: This is not my post even though it’s under my name. We’ve thrown a few annotations in with, more or less, Indy’s permission. See if you can find all (e^pi)-pi of them!)
Hello, world! I’m Indy, a long time friend of LabRat and Stingray’s and your “shooting noob” guest blogger. I recently moved to an area proximal to the Nerd Ranch for a graduate program in human evolution and genetics. I’ve taken the opportunity to spend lots of time harassing the nerds and monopolizing Tank. This year, they were kind enough to host Thanksgiving for myself, Spear, and Farmgirl. Given some recent experiences in my less-than-perfect neighborhood, Stingray and LabRat had suggested that I might want to learn to shoot while I was up there. I’ve been interested in learning more about guns for a while, but my last experiences involved grouse hunting when I was a kid. All of my (somewhat limited) experience was with shotguns, and I hadn’t shot a gun in 10+ years. We made a trip out to the range while I was there for Turkey Day. Stingray suggested my “noob” experiences might be fun for some of you to read, given that it’s probably been a long time since many of you were brand new at this! (LR- It’s easy to forget what being a new shooter is actually like when your day to day experience involves forum and blog wankery on the theoretical exercise of new shooters.)
We decided to stick to the indoor range since the wind levels were questionable and I was interested in trying out handguns. Spear started me off with some basic safety instruction and a quick lesson on stances and sights. We geared up (noise cancelling ear protection! so cool!) and I shot a rifle (Stingray Sez: Remington 514). Stingray and Spear decided to start me with something that I gather was sort of geared for beginners; it had almost no kick and was easy to shoot. It was frankly a lot less complicated than I was expecting. Much like many beginning shooters, I was a little nervous about the kick and bang aspect of things. Luckily, the first gun I tried didn’t have much bite to it. (It was actually easier than shooting something like a nerf gun or a water pistol.) I realized pretty quickly that what I’d thought was going to be my problem (kick) was not in fact a problem, whereas things that I hadn’t actually thought about (sighting and stance) were posing challenges. It took me a while to get used to the stance with the rifle. I imagine I’m going to need a lot more practice with it to feel comfortable. Leaning toward your target puts your center of gravity in a place that doesn’t exactly feel normal (Stingray Sez: Spear shoots all tactical high speed drag. Stingray shoots all fussy match precisiondork. WHITE PEOPLE SHOOT LIKE DIS. CANADIAN PEOPLE SHOOT LIKE DAT.). (Actually, as a dark admission, the only reason I was really able to figure out the balance problem is because I do yoga. Go figure: crunchy granola hippie activities and shooting, two things that actually blend well together.) It was also a little hard to getting used to focusing in multiple places for the sight, but that turned out to be something that was relatively easy to pick up with practice.
One of the most important things I learned from the rifle was basically that I needed to adjust where I was shooting to account for visual distortion between my eye and the target. Spear pointed out that I was a little off from where I wanted to be, probably because of differences in my vision and sighting. I found that if I was shooting for, say, point X, I needed to actually aim a little to the right. (LR: Ironically, she was the only uncomplicated, straightforward right-handed right-eye dominant shooter in the room.) I ended up shooting Farmgirl’s rifle (Stingray Sez: Winchester 94/22), which was fun but – at least to me – seemed relatively similar to the first gun I’d shot. (I suspect that with more practice, I’ll be able to tell more of a difference between guns. At the moment, not so much.) Somewhere in there, we backed up so I could try from further back. I frankly couldn’t tell a huge difference between the two distances we tried. Aiming was slightly different, and it was a little harder to get things to go where I wanted. The real difference seemed to be in how much my breathing impacted the spread of the bullets. (LR- She’s not kidding. We stood there and watched her trace several little triangles depending on where she was on inhale-exhale.)
The most challenging part of the whole day for me was probably the stance for firing handguns. We tried isosceles stance first. I couldn’t quite get my body not to lean in the wrong direction. Farmgirl suggested I move one foot back to try weaver, and that was a lot easier. I’m relatively tall for a woman (5’8″) and my center of gravity just wasn’t lining up somehow. I had to make a conscious effort to lean forward every time, but it did get a little easier as I shot more. (LR- I was the only person there who’s happiest in isosceles. I’m also the shortest and the one with baby bearin’ hips. Anatomy matters a lot, as we’re going to talk about in a later post.)
I really liked firing the handguns. They were more fun than the rifles for me. (LR- This was not an expected result.) We switched to a white paper target so I could get a better idea of where I was shooting, since apparently I was doing a bit better than expected at this point (Stingray Sez: Damn freak was shooting a quarter sized group from 20 yards on her first day with everything she picked up. We’re gonna put her in a box, poke some air holes, and ship her off to Tam with a note that says “Enjoy your new padawan.”). I was, again, worried about the kick, but I discovered that it wasn’t anything I couldn’t handle. To me, a lot of the handguns felt relatively similar in how they fired and how I aimed them. I started with something relatively small caliber, a Ruger MK II, which was honestly really easy to shoot. I had a lot of fun with that one. It was kind of cool to actually move up to a point where I needed to start worrying about my breathing while firing. (Which I’m not entirely sure I ever got the hang of, but oh well, there’s always next time!) I also tried a few bigger guns. I found that the heavier guns with large grips were more my speed. I have big hands but small wrists. On guns without that weight, my wrists were effectively acting as shock absorbers for the impact. (For example, Stingray and Labrat have his-and-hers Les Baer 1911’s. I vastly preferred Stingray’s. (Stingray Sez: Monolith Heavyweight- extended dust cover = more weight up front) (LR: The “hers” in this case was my Kimber compact. Mama Baer didn’t come out to play that day. There are actually four 1911s in the household.) The only two guns that really stood out to me were Stingray’s revolver (Stingray Sez:S&W 25-5 .45lc) and a tiny handgun (Stingray Sez: Kel-Tec p32). Neither was impossible (or even difficult) for me to fire, but they both had a lot of recoil. I had a harder time reaiming after shooting a round. The really small gun was the only one I didn’t actually enjoy firing. It was one of the last guns I tried. At that point, my wrists and shoulders were getting tired.
As a whole, shooting was a lot less complicated (and a lot more fun!) than I’d initially anticipated. (And, obviously, thanks to the Nerds & Co. for taking me out.) If anyone has any questions for me, I’m more than happy to answer them in comments!
December 22nd, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Sounds like you have a convert there.
I have yet to meet anyone who enjoys shooting one of the little Kel-Tecs. But they are just so concealable.
December 22nd, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Welcome to shooting Indy, sounds like you did quite well on your first outing.
A couple suggestions if I might; fairly quickly, you should settle on a single rifle and handgun and concentrate your range sessions and practice on just them at first. This will better allow you to more quickly master the mechanics of sight picture, breath control, stance, etc. Also, when I first learned handgunning in 196X-ish, I began from the “traditional” dominate foot forward, straight arm extension of the antique “dueling stance”. Once sight, breath, etc was under control, I shifted to the diametric opposite - non-dominate foot forward, two-hand grip across the body (this isn’t a very comfortable stance btw). This method quickly taught me to “pivot” my stance around the handgun’s point of aim no matter what firing position I took (sitting, kneeling, bending around cover, isoceles, Weaver, etc).
Something to think about until your next range outing. Your point about the yoga is a good one, try different methods (and gun models/types) until you find those that work for you. You’ll know when you’re ready to move to a different gun - you’ll start to be just a bit bored with the one’s you already have, and you’ll almost be able to aford to buy another.
Good job Team Nerds.
December 22nd, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Any other time I’d agree with the one rifle one pistol until a little more experience is gained but in this case Indy was able to master pretty well everything we handed her without much help once she figured out the basics of stance. Stingray and I talked about it at the range, we were trying to keep her from finding it boring. We also noticed that she took to it like a duck to water, inside of 10 shots she was running the single shot 514 as well as anyone I’ve seen, and she did it with no instruction from me.
We started her on the MKII 6″ taper but she found a 5.5″ bull balanced better and she shot it better.
The whole range day went pretty much exactly the opposite of how a new shooter day usually goes.
December 22nd, 2011 at 4:58 pm
This is so cool. We see a lot of “first time shooter” posts from the perspective of the person who takes the first timer to the range. It’s pretty rare we see something this detailed from the shooter.
Good for you Indy! Welcome to one of the most fun hobbies around!
December 22nd, 2011 at 5:38 pm
Thanks, guys! I’m very excited to be starting out.
And, Will, at least for a while, my general plan is just to do what Spear and Stingray tell me to! I don’t want to acquire any bad habits, and I kinda figure they know their stuff, shooting wise.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:04 pm
Yes they do, Indy, and Spear explains what got left out in the initial post (the part about all your not-new-shooter skills and all :)).
December 23rd, 2011 at 2:34 am
Welcome Indy!
Get yourself a gun for Christmas.
Thanks for a great post.
December 23rd, 2011 at 4:01 am
Awesome!
FWIW, don’t be too worried about the foot placement thing. Stance happens from the waist up, anyway. If you gotta bust caps, your feet are just gonna be wherever they’re gonna be. And probably moving, too.
December 23rd, 2011 at 7:21 am
[…] Very cool. Typically, a new shooter post is done by the teacher. Nice to see one written by the new shooter. […]
December 23rd, 2011 at 11:26 am
Besides … if you try to beat up a shooter on foot placement, Breda will bust your kneecaps.
December 23rd, 2011 at 12:06 pm
One thing I was told first time by my shootin’ instructor ( NRA Dist.Xprt, Olympic rifle team) was “keep both eyes open”. (also my college girlfriend, damn sleeping with teacher was fun!)
It seems counterintuitive; but step one is acquire target, two is put the front sight on it (make your lollipop) and three is frame it. All that western movie squinting is complete bullshit, plus it messes with your chi, or something.
BTW, don’t go dissin’ yoga. All it is is awareness of tension and balance, and any road to that is worthwhile.
December 23rd, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Keeping both eyes open will screw with you pretty good if you don’t have a dominant eye, as neither Farmgirl nor I do.
It gives me an interesting yet useless picture of two sights and targets, one on the left and one on the right…
December 23rd, 2011 at 2:47 pm
@LabRat
Not that this would be much help with pistol sights, but I wonder how you would do with something like an Trijicon ACOG or Accupoint scope on a long gun. These are designed to be used with both eyes open. Great optics, but not cheap.
December 23rd, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Or if you’re cross dominate. Fortunately for me that’s only a problem when shooting long guns, and only when not shooting off a rest at that. I’m fully ambidextrous with pistols.
December 23rd, 2011 at 4:12 pm
And Spear and Stingray both are cross-dominant, at that.
There’s a reason it occurred to none of us to advise that…
Pyro- there’s EOTech on Stingray’s AR. I seem to use it just fine, though I’ve actually never noticed whether I’m bothering to close an eye or not. But I’ve had issues with scopes when the eye relief wasn’t just right…
December 23rd, 2011 at 7:55 pm
Not only are we both cross-eyed we solved the problem differently. I shoot with my non-dominant eye and he switched hands.
December 24th, 2011 at 9:14 am
Great post, and welcome to the fraternity (or sorority) as the case may be… You’ve got some good teachers there, and it seems you’ve solved some of the ‘basic’ issues… Grip and breathing are usually the biggest ‘problem’ areas, stance not so much, since we’re not cookie cutter identical. Sighting and eye dominance are always an individual thing, and having SR and Spear (Cross eye) and LR (dominant/dominant), they gave you all the right cues. Looking forward to hearing about the follow on shoots!
December 24th, 2011 at 11:20 am
Thanks for all the tips and advice, folks!
And @JC - I asked Spear about this because I’d heard that somewhere, but frankly, I can’t focus worth a damn with both eyes open. I’m right handed and, thankfully, right eyed, but something about that just wasn’t working for me. Everything just jumps around, and I think I got the same blurry double vision that LR is describing.
December 24th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Merry Christmas Indy, and to the Atomic Nerds!
December 25th, 2011 at 6:54 am
Blessings of the season to Nerds, dogs and visitors! What’s the festive brew this year?
December 25th, 2011 at 11:41 am
There’s no fresh brew- yet- but someone DID get a brand new shiny keg refrigerator from Santa, and a gift certificate from the brew store from someone else, and there IS about two pounds of native-grown hops sitting in the freezer begging to be used in a new experiment.
December 26th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Wanted to thank you guys so much for the hot cocoa and this is where AD sent me lol. Anyway , it is spectacular especially with whip cream and cinnamon schnapps :). Hope you have a wonderful Holiday !