Size Queens
Irradiated by LabRat
Scratching about for content while fixing up the place to host guests (no content 4 u tomorrow, sorry), a friend asked me in the spirit of helpfulness whether the fixation on penis size men and women alike in many cultures seem to have is likely to be cultural, or genetic. So okay, an easy enough question to answer.
In terms of aiding the evolutionary success of its owner, a phallus has one purpose: deliver sperm to egg. This can either be a low-demand task that you don’t necessarily need any intromittent organ for at all- see most birds, fish, and many reptiles- or it can be a towering chore that requires the penile equivalent of advanced technology (elephants, rhinos). Whether it can move on its own, impress rivals, or otherwise do tricks are all highly secondary to this purpose, unless you are a female hyena, in which case zoologists have a long list of questions to ask you.
Most primates have relatively small penises in relation to their body size, with the most notable exception being humans. Why we ARE the exception has likely the most to do with our unique bipedal posture; a critter that locomotes on its knuckles, or swings about in trees, simply has an easier angle of penetration than we do. Anyone who has had heterosexual intercourse probably remembers the bit no one tells you about, which is that penetration requires more than just “lie on top of girl, thrust”.
In order to accomplish the task at hand, the penis needs to be big enough to penetrate far enough to give the sperm a fighting chance at reaching the end of their swim, and that big only. More is not necessarily better for fertilization purposes- too girthy and it simply may not fit (locker-room joking aside, this can be an actual problem for anatomically mismatched couples), too long and he may bang into the cervix, which can be very painful for the woman and is not mood-enhancing. Correspondingly, the average human penis is just about as big around and as long as the average human vagina is broad and deep- and just as there is some direct selective pressure on the human penis getting too small, there is a direct upper limit on how much larger the vagina can get- we’re already seriously pushing against the limits for what kind of opening we can fit in our pelvises without compromising the owner’s ability to walk and run, and the dangers of childbirth for mothers relative to other species show it.
In strict terms of fertilization success, bigger is not better, average is exactly best. If our cultural patterns don’t reflect that, it may be a strong hint that cultural patterns are extremely unreliable reflectors of directly linked biological fitness benefits.
So why the cultural patterns, which are admittedly common and widespread? Probably because the penis is a really obvious and “standout” difference between men and women, and because cultures in general tend to find things to hang virility off of and display it. (Okay I promise I’ll stop with the bad puns now.) There’s also the idea that bigger really does make sex better, which perhaps a majority of men, a smaller majority of virginal women, and a minority of experienced women who enjoy the sensation a lot all share- which goes less to “we are attracted to features that will directly increase our fitness” than it does to “we are attracted to features we think will gratify us sexually and emotionally and fitness is a payoff afterward”.
In any case, “culture, imagined virility display” is a much more sensible answer to why men are so much more interested in measuring penises than women tend to be.
May 26th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Ah, you’re just saying that to make us exactly average guys feel better.
May 26th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
Some people interpret old statues to indicate that the ideal male of ancient Egypt had a member that was narrow and long (but not too long).
I can’t remember if they could come to similar conclusions about the ancient Greeks and Romans.
May 27th, 2011 at 7:56 am
Karrde - I believe the ancient Greeks and Romans actually prized the smaller penis, believing that having a big one was just crude.
May 27th, 2011 at 8:21 am
What’s dubstep got to do with the subject at hand? Oh yeah, spam.
May 27th, 2011 at 8:32 am
I’m thinking it has to do with craftmanship. The best final product always depends on the ability of the craftsman to use the tools at hand.
May 27th, 2011 at 11:48 am
Holly: Just looked it up on Wiki, and they claimed the Greeks liked them small, while the Romans liked them big.
On that front, I wonder how much of this is from written evidence, and how much is inferred?
May 27th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Interesting take… And probably MORE true than 99% of the crap that is out there. And pain is DEFINITELY a turnoff for a lot of folks during sex. Tends to limit the chances to repeat
May 31st, 2011 at 9:30 am
Hm.
There really are size queens out there, though. And they’re not all gay men. I do think they tend to be relationally stunted, though…
May 31st, 2011 at 9:43 am
Oh, absolutely there are. I just tend to slot them in with people with other fetishes that obviously bear no relation to our evolutionary adaptedness rather than assuming a primally driven correlation. I’ve never heard anyone try and make an argument that we should be especially concerned with feet because sound feet let us run faster, but foot fetishes are among the relatively common.
May 31st, 2011 at 12:14 pm
“he may bang into the cervix, which can be very painful for the woman and is not mood-enhancing”
It ain’t no picnic for him either.
Just sayin’…
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:57 am
“he may bang into the cervix, which can be very painful for the woman”
Or it can be absolutely delightful, which is true for a lot of women I’ve spoken with (and me personally). And most women I know are more concerned with larger girth than more length. The last thing a woman wants to think when she sees a man naked for the first time is, “Oh, how sweet - you brought incense!”
But I have never, EVER heard a woman say she likes men who are smaller than average.
June 12th, 2011 at 3:51 am
Karrde: I recall reading somewhere that really well-preserved Roman ruins, such as the instantly-buried towns of Pompeii and Herculaneum, contain a lot of still-readable graffiti and wall art, and a significant fraction of that is pornographic. Rather graphically so, in some cases.
Sexually repressed, our ancestors were not.