Apparently This IS Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Irradiated by LabRat
So, it seems our last Vicious Circle cast (and for me, first) has been taken as something of an assault in whole on the blog bash and its organizers. (Update: Link is now dead, original post pulled, replaced with this post apologizing to his readers but very pointedly no one else.) (Update two: Google remembers, though not most of the comments.)
I’m not particularly interested in wading hip-deep into this and going over it point by point. I’ll say that I was totally broadsided, because I didn’t dislike the bash at all- I had a great deal more fun than I usually do at such events- and I liked Sebastian and Bitter pretty well from what little I knew of them until about half past noon when I learned of this. I especially appreciated the help Sebastian offered in sending traffic our way in our one attempt to commit actual journalism given that we’d been given media passes.
I do feel I was misquoted, quoted out of context, misconstrued, add some other mis- and “hey, that’s not what I meant” just for good measure. I don’t remember even being all that interested in meeting Michael Bane given I had nothing to say to him other than “Dude, thanks for the drinks!”, let alone being terminally pissed- though I was annoyed I couldn’t hear a thing not shouted directly into my ear, which was nobody’s fault except the architect who designed the bar. Yeah, we skipped a lot of the official events, but that was because I was juggling my time between visiting my mother and doing the bash. I regretted that it had to be so, because I DID want to hang out more with people I didn’t know as well, or that I did know but was not as friendly with, like Kevin- or for that matter Bitter and Sebastian, whom as I’ve said I liked just fine given the relatively brief contact. Even as it was we’re only now beginning to catch up on the sleep deficit we built up. But, whatever; if you want to know, listen to the podcast. It’s over an hour long, which is how come you really can’t *help* but quote out of context.
Did we prioritize hanging out with friends we already knew well? Well, yeah, but I’m having a hard time seeing how this was such a massive flaming asshole thing to do. We’ve been hanging out in the Gunblogger Conspiracy IRC channel for about a year now, which means we’ve been laughing, telling stories, and generally bonding together for more than enough time to value face time with friends over NRA event time, given we were so short on that TIME thing. The conspiracy thing, by the way, is a very much tongue-in-cheek joke- as networking goes, we’re pretty useless for that purpose, as most of us are C-list bloggers at best. Small fish in a small pond.
As for the “cool kids” thing… uh, WE WERE JOKING. And the joke is, like what you’d expect from people that consider IRC something of a social life, we’re all geeky introverts who have never been “cool” in our entire lives. The title of our blog is not remotely a joke or tongue-in-cheek; we are NERDS. We hang out with each other because we’re overwhelmed by crowds and tend toward the shy end of the spectrum when it comes to others, especially “bigger fish” as it were. If you’d ever asked me to name the actual presumed “cool kids”, numbering US among them would never have occurred to either one of us. Breda, maybe, but after having met her it turns out she’s pretty much an introverted geek too and hasn’t a trace of ego. (But of course, she has her own, much more popular podcast and wasn’t part of this drama at all.) Why would we assume that the fact that we were chiefly making fun of ourselves went without saying? Because it never occurred to us that anyone outside our little pond would care to listen, basically. It’s certainly never happened before.
What I said there (minus the filter of paranoia) is completely true: we are not political animals, and we’re not even really political bloggers either so much as we are bloggers that sometimes write about politics. It almost never occurs to either one of us to say anything other than exactly what we’re thinking, we don’t take politics of any kind into account before speaking- be that the personal politics of gunbloggers or the larger politics of the NRA- and we do value hanging out with friends over making contacts for political change, though we did try a bit of that on our own in a clumsy and technical-problem-plagued fashion. So, maybe we’re not such a good fit for the apparent intended purpose of the blog bash, and in the future we’ll probably avoid all such events just to avoid the potential for hurt feelings. Screw claiming the new media crown- we never wanted it all that badly anyway, and if I personally were to chase it, I’d probably do so as a science blogger rather than a gunblogger- that’s what I really am.
Oh, and as a broad note to any readers I may get cross-threaded with in the future? I’d appreciate it if you talked to me before you slammed me. The odds are I’ll say “Oh, no no NO, that’s not what I meant at all!” and apologize. If it was EXACTLY what I meant, then I’ll be helpful by clearing up all possible doubt and you have my word you can quote me on it.
Okay? Okay.
May 20th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
I was just reading through the comments on the run-down and it seems like most people think that the POV is a bit off: Chris Byrne Said…
May 20th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
erm, HTML FAIL. Take 2:
Chris Byrne said…
May 20th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Well said. I read the original post and listened to the podcast. I’d have to agree that this is a case of manufacturing drama when none was actually there.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
The interesting thing to me here is that when I posted about the exclusion of David Codrea and Mike Vanderboegh, I got an email asking why I hadn’t brought my questions directly to the source first, before publishing something.
Look, we’re all nerds. The Cool people just don’t do what we do. And as a result of that, I think a lot (if not the overwhelming majority) of us have oversensitive egos when it comes to perceived personal slights. Bitter and Sebastian are not exempt from this.
I listened to the podcast a couple of days ago. I didn’t think it was as bad as Sebastian made it out to be, but viewed through the filter of a non-blogging NRA muckety-muck, I CAN see how it could be misinterpreted - badly. I think, in all honesty, that Sebastian may have made the problem worse just by bringing it up.
I’m even more certain that Vanderboegh & Co. will be producing a gleeful post in the immediate future detailing how Bitter & Sebastian have “turned on” their fellow bloggers, just as predicted.
See you at Gun Blogger Rendezvous IV in September. Be there. And bring the microphone.
May 20th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Since I live vicariously through everyone’s blogs I really have no context for “what really went on” other than… well, what I read in blogs (and the linked podcast). That being said, I’m not understanding this outrage over “sexual jokes being made about the women from the NRA”. I mean, that just not how it sounded to me. It didn’t sound like a joking, “Well, it would have been better if they had done THIS…” It sounded like a joking, “It wasn’t that bad… what kind of ‘standards’ were you expecting?” Which also changes the target of the joke.
Nobody seems to have cleared that one up, and it’s really confusing me because I don’t know if I’m “getting it”, or if I suddenly have no clue what other English speakers are trying to say.
May 20th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
The podcast is intended to be awkward and tasteless. That’s why it has an “explicit” tag on iTunes.
That said, no one had anything negative to say about Bitter or the blog bash. In fact we said several times that the blog bash was more interesting than the convention. We did say a lot of negative things about the NRA and the way the NRA deals with media, but no one said anything negative about Rachel or the people running the media room. (There were also positive things said. Listen to the whole thing and see for yourself.)
I stand behind everything I said and I make no apologies.
Cross commented on Snowflakes in Hell.
May 20th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Wow, talk about manufacturing drama - they actually *transcribed* the podcast. Pretty sad, actually.
That said, maybe The Vicious Circle should thank them for an increase in listenership.
May 20th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
also! Since blogging is becoming kind of a big thing on the internet (or is at least trending that way) it seems that very soon we won’t need a “coordinator” at all.
Free range bloggers! Chaos! Oh noes! (and oh, by the way…I so appreciated being “warned” about the reporter at the happy hour. God forbid I say something impolitic. Fantastic vote of confidence, thankyouverymuch.)
May 20th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Cross commented on Snowflakes in Hell: Let me go on the record as volunteering for the thankless task of organizing the next gunblogger bash.
I know I’m not high profile like Bitter or Sebastian or lots of folks, but I’m an excellent event planner and I throw one hell of a party, modestly aside.
May 20th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Hyuk. Meant to say “modesty aside”.
See how that works? I can’t even joke about being modest.
Vulgar creature.
May 20th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
If there’s gonna be a rattlesnake decapitation event, I’m there.
May 21st, 2009 at 3:51 am
WTF?
Srsly, WTFingF?
May 21st, 2009 at 6:51 am
I’m watching this from the outside, and not at all closely, but this has the same vibe that I saw a lot in competing RPG campings. They’re doing a 2nd Ed AD&D on Wednesdays because they know I can’t make it that night!
Pfft. Drama queens are everywhere, but nerd circles do appear to have them in higher percentages. That’s a lot of why I don’t play RPGs anymore actually…
May 21st, 2009 at 7:00 am
Well, missed that one - things change very quickly on these internets. The post you guys link to has been yanked, and judging by what I’m reading here that’s probably a good thing.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:39 am
The link to Snowflakes is a dead link now.
May 21st, 2009 at 7:59 am
Down the memory hole. Heh.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:05 am
Reasoned Discourse! ™
May 21st, 2009 at 8:34 am
Sebastian’s put up a new post regarding the old post:
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/05/21/post-from-yesterday/
May 21st, 2009 at 8:37 am
Awww, I missed it.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:49 am
Sebastian is bit gun-shy after the threeper/prag flame war is all.
Looks like he calmed down a bit.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:49 am
I haven’t yet had the chance to listen to the podcast (will do that tonight), but I tend to agree with Breda that this is much ado about nothing. Manufactured drama.
Look, you guys, Alan, & TD are a bunch of jokers, and the Vicious Circle podcasts aren’t meant to be super serious as far as I can tell. Hell, if it were it’d be terribly out of character for everyone.
I truly appreciate all the work Sebastian & Bitter put into the event, but I also think that as a result of that they’re taking this too seriously and were overly sensitive. It’s also not the kind of thing that needed a post on Sebastian’s part (which I guess is why he yanked it) I short e-mail convo would have cleared up any misunderstandings and / or perceived personal slights.
May 21st, 2009 at 8:55 am
Phlegmmy does throw great parties. And makes great coffee! This much is certain.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:07 am
I just listened to a few of the parts Sebastian transcribed.
I’ve never agreed with his position on pushing gun rights openly is being harmful to our cause, but if he thinks that the “Bathrobes, blowjob” bit was an attack on ANYONE I can understand why he gets annoyed about the threepers saying ANYTHING at all.
It could be a cultural thing, I don’t know. I don’t take obvious jokes (with laughter actually making it hard to hear what’s said for gods sakes) all that serious.
I don’t know, maybe I don’t take life serious enough.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:08 am
I would love to go to a Phlegmmy Party! But its too far to go. And it’s all so jet-set; to zoom around like you gun-sophisticates do, traveling across the country, listening to gun-podcasts and all. I’m a provincial, but I don’t eat snakes.
May 21st, 2009 at 9:13 am
In an earlier life I hosted a few events which might compare with the recent blog bash. Does the phrase “thankless task” ring any bells? I have no doubt that Sebastian & Bitter (S&B) are bone-tired after all the work involved. I’m also certain they’re a bit disappointed that things didn’t turn out quite as they envisioned.
The main difference between me then and them now is they have a means of near-instant communication at their fingertips and being more or less normal humans, they typed before they thought. Under similar circumstances I’d have probably done much worse.
For the record, I think I lean more than slightly toward the threeper side rather than the prags but I do see the need for the two sides to work together when possible. Neither of the primary voices in this little tempest have been very reasonable so far. I hope that changes soon. We need to present a united front to the liberal gun grabbers or they will win.
May 21st, 2009 at 10:42 am
The whole point of the 2ABB was to get bloggers and NRA in closer/better contact and it has succeeded; that would be a win for Bitter, Sebastian and gunbloggers in general. It would be a pity if this situation is allowed to impair those connections.
As for the podcast and hurt feelings, what others have said of the degree of socialization, bluntness and iconoclasm (dammit, I’ll bet that’s not spelled correctly) to be found among bloggers appears to me to be accurate. LabRat’s posting is spot-on and I hope the aggrieved parties will take in in the spirit in which it is meant.
I was sorry to have missed the NRA this year and hope to attend next year — either as a blogger or as some other kind of “working press.”
May 21st, 2009 at 12:09 pm
I said it over at Sebastian’s and I’ll say it here - manufactured drama. I knew there’d be drama as soon as the Codrea/Vanderboegh thing happened, which is why I skipped the 2ABB even though I was registered. I get enough drama in day-to-day life, kthxby.
May 21st, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Good god. I have no idea what you’re writing about, and it probably don’t matter much- you’re cool in my book.
John
May 21st, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Oh- part of the reason you’re cool is because you’re nerds, aka *intelligent*.
May 21st, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Things seem to have died down since the original went swirling down the Memory Hole, and I’m happy enough to keep it that way- I don’t want to have a running fight in the gunblogger community so much as set the record straight from my point of view and chalk up “folks what I don’t get on with” to a learning experience.
And thank you, John- you’re a sweetie.
May 22nd, 2009 at 6:48 am
It doesn’t surprise me all that much. In my experience, Bitter doesn’t deal with criticism well. Even if it is intended as constructive or isn’t criticism at all but is only perceived by her to be.
And, if she’s anything like my wife, she probably expects Sebastian to defend her honor when she perceives it to have been attacked.
Important life lesson when dealing with others…especially in large groups: You’re never going to please everyone…so don’t bother trying. Make it work the best you can for the largest number you can and don’t take it personally when the criticism starts. If it’s a valid gripe: lesson learned for next time. If it’s not…sorry friend, life is full of disappointments.
At any rate, I’m glad it’s all blowing over. Whether it’s just the “geek” thing or something else, this kerfluffel (did I spell that right?) does reinforce the point that we do have some maturity issues within our community.
I guess I shouldn’t expect our community to be fundamentally different than any other cross-section of society, regardless of how independent and responsible we tend to consider ourselves to be.
May 22nd, 2009 at 9:41 am
Well, I don’t know. Defending a woman’s honor is one thing. Enabling her inner drama queen instead of calling her out on the accompanying drama queen bullshit is quite another. But if you turn out to be a drama queen yourself, the enabling comes naturally, I guess. And that was NOT aimed at you or your wife, Sailorcurt, just my observation.
May 22nd, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Interesting, tried to post a comment and was told it didn’t make it past the spam filter…
May 22nd, 2009 at 8:17 pm
NFO- Nothing showed in the spamcatcher, but that doesn’t mean something else didn’t eat it. We’ve got a few blacklisted IP addys that spammed a lot, and a limit of something like 4 or 5 links per comment, but other than that we let just about anybody in. Try again, and if it still eats it drop a line to the gmail addy in the info page.
May 28th, 2009 at 12:35 am
I fall somewhere between John Shirley’s and Tamara’s posts, above. I’ve read the links, and am distressed at the way some people insist on being offended.
And, srsly? The Atomic Nerds are the Kewl Kids. . . .
Oh, and put my girl Phleghmmy in charge of the next thankless event, and you’ll find yourself thanking. She’s got skilz, yo.
Relax, and don’t worry, friends. Because worrying is like paying interest on a debt you may not even owe.